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    Wednesday, June 21, 2006

    Coach Floyd vs. Beer
    This comes by way of the Arkansas Democrat Gazette:

    SPRINGDALE — The Rev. Ronnie Floyd has withdrawn his support for Springdale’s proposed baseball stadium after learning of plans to sell beer at the minorleague ballpark.

    Floyd, pastor of First Baptist Church of Springdale, appeared last week in a video supporting the proposed $ 50 million baseball stadium. The video was shown June 13 at a Springdale Chamber of Commerce luncheon and has been replayed twice a day on Jones Television network on Cox Cable in Northwest Arkansas since Monday.

    But the church’s spokesman said Tuesday that Floyd hadn’t been informed of the intended beer sales before taping the address three weeks ago.

    Alan Damron, associate pastor of strategic communications, said Floyd was in meetings Tuesday and unavailable for comment. Floyd, Floyd however, addressed the issue in an e-mail to a Springdale resident who brought it to his attention.

    “At the time we stated our support we were unaware that alcohol would be sold at the park,” Floyd wrote this week in an e-mail to Virginia Pozza. “Our support will be withdrawn from any action that would place the sale of alcohol in a family-oriented environment.”

    Read the rest of the story

    posted by Arkansas Razorbaptist at 6/21/2006 09:50:00 PM

    28 Comments:

    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    Who cares what Ronnie Floyd thinks? As soon as Floyd gets pressure from the "big boys", he'll back off. Do you really think that Floyd thought that beer was not going to be sold at a ball park? Kinda takes the focus off a defeat, doesn't it?

    Thursday, June 22, 2006 7:06:00 AM  
    Blogger Kevin Bussey said...

    I don't drink, but it is hard to place my values on those who don't have the same convictions.

    Thursday, June 22, 2006 8:28:00 AM  
    Blogger centuri0n said...

    I don't think this is a great time to take a shot at Dr. Floyd -- as if any time was a great time to take a shot at the pastor of a church.

    His opposition to the sale and manufacture of alcohol may be misguided, but I don't think it is dishonest. Implying that it is seems a little abusive.

    Thursday, June 22, 2006 9:04:00 AM  
    Blogger Clif Cummings said...

    When will we (the SBC or Christians in general) stop expecting pagans to adopt the values of Christians? They won't because they can't! They are blind and dead to the teaching of the Spirit. Read 1 Cor. 2:14

    Does Ronnie encourage his members to shop at stores that don't sell alcohol? mmmmmm.... ie. Wal Mart?

    Thursday, June 22, 2006 11:30:00 AM  
    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    centurion- I don't see shots being taken. I too just don't understand RF motive's on this. Is it in a pastor's job discription to support ball parks and then change his mind when he realizes that beer will be served? Is it his responsibility? I for one am against using public money's to build stadiums. I too agree with RF. I'm on his side. I just happen to think that RF needs to be careful in his position. So, Centurion, please enlighten us. Why would RF do this? Why? PS. Kevin Bussey and Cliff Cummings, you understand. You must be commended. Keep the faith and God bless!

    Thursday, June 22, 2006 12:51:00 PM  
    Blogger centuri0n said...

    I'm going to try an experiment here, and you readers follow along with me. Consider my remarks below hypothetical and not necessarily my opinion.
    __________

    As I read this NWA News article about the ball stadium, the first thing that crossed my mind was, "is FBC-S building a ballfield? Did Dr. Floyd have to go to the planning commission to get approval?"

    Suddenly I realized that Dr. Floyd had endosed a municipal project, and I couldn't come up for a context in which a minister of the Gospel would want to get that involved -- which is to say, at the political endorsement level -- in public works projects. Did it advance the cause of soul winning to publicly endorse a government project?
    _______________

    Now, read that carefully. It doesn't impune the motives of Dr. Floyd. It doesn't impune the character of Dr. Floyd. It questions the method of engagement he employed without making him into a person with a moral or ethical lapse. It also doesn't try to broaden the scope of the issue (which is broad enough) by trying to see if some perceived set of logical operators is being applied by Dr. Floyd every time they come up.

    It is sort of petty to deny or regret that Dr. Floyd has sociological influence in NWA: there is no doubt that he does. Any Christian that doesn't admit that it is good to have a pastor in circles of significant influence is not being entirely up-front; most of us ought to be honest enough to admit we are jealous of some of his notoriety.

    There might be something wrong with the events that the NWA News article spells out, but let me say that it is wrong to poke at Dr. Floyd as if he was a man of bad conscience. It is plain that he does not think about church life the way many people in smaller churches do, and there may be a very sincere and edifying discussion in that topic, but it will never happen as long as he is demonized as a political hack or a fauning admirer of secular power.

    Look: I am just a guy with a blog, but I am also a member of the SBC who cares deeply about the future of our convention. That future is going to include ideological conflict between the kind of church vision Dr. Floyd has and the kind of church vision people like me have -- which will include whether there is room for both inside the convention in the matter of cooperation both at the local level and at the global level.

    That conflict will be baptist-business-meeting ugly if rhetoric about motives and personalities becomes the centerpiece. Please let's not allow this kind of spectacle to set the stage for future interaction between the camps.

    One other thing, and I'll quit. There is a question in the old school as to whether the blogosphere is a sub-christian methodology. I think it is an ill-considered question, but it exists -- expressly for the purpose of being validated by reactionary posts like "Ronnie Floyd's a flunky" or some such thing. If the influence of free expression inside our convention is going to be perpetrated by blogs and bloggers, bloggers have to be worthy of that responsibility. It is not a right to say anything you want indiscriminately and anonymously. If you want to be part of a serious dialog, you have to take personal risks and accept the consequences -- which may be good or bad.

    Look: read my blog. I'm hardly someone who soft-soaks criticism. But even in being critical, I make a concerted effort to do what the Bible says, and give double-honor to those who would teach the word because of the kind of calling they have. If you think that Dr. Floyd ought not to be involved directly in local politics to the point where he is endorsing particular acts of public works, and if you think that there is a problem with him spending his good community capital on SBC resolutions which are not Gospel-oriented, maybe you are making a good point -- but to call him any kind of disreputable over the matter is a tough row to hoe. For you.

    Thanks for reading.

    Thursday, June 22, 2006 1:17:00 PM  
    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    I have to agree with anonymous. Ronnie Floyd HAD to know they were going to sell alcohol at a "professional" sporting event. What professional venue doesn't? He simply got caught with his pants down and is now covering his tracks. Is it a huge deal to me? No. I don't expect much more. I find it odd that pastors fight drinking tooth and nail, but say nothing about gluttony which is usually teamed with drunkeness in scripture. I guess it would make too many of their overly large congregation offended if they talked about overeating. Case in point Pastor Hagee in Texas. You'll hear him talk about drinking until the cows come home, but he doesn't dare talk about gluttony because he'd have to bring conviction on his own slothfulness. When you're bigger than the north side of a barn as he is, he doesn't dare condemn overeating, yet it is just as distasteful (no pun intended) to God than drunkeness.

    Thursday, June 22, 2006 1:22:00 PM  
    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    Centurion- It is true that you are much wiser than me. I stand corrected. I regret my comments and for that I am sorry. Anonymous for the last time.

    Thursday, June 22, 2006 1:23:00 PM  
    Anonymous Batgirl said...

    How is reprinting an article found in the Dem-Gaz taking a shot at him? I think it is just something to discuss.
    I can see how Pastor Floyd didn't realize alcohol would be sold. This is Arkansas... granted... he's in NWA... but nonetheless... it is possible he thought there wouldn't be any.

    Thursday, June 22, 2006 1:35:00 PM  
    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    Batgirl, it's also possible that there is life on Pluto, but HIGHLY improbable. You need to get your head out of the sand. Ronnie Floyd has gone to professional sporting events (he's a huge Dallas Cowboy fan). ALL professional venues sell alcohol and he knows it. He knew it when he made his supportive comment and he knew it when he withdrew his support. Is there anything wrong with having a professional sporting team in your area? No. But I certainly don't want people pouring beer on me when they stagger by my seat. That's why I will NOT vote for the ballpark. I have nothing against drinking but I do take great offense at drunkneness. Selling alcohol at sporting venues will facilitate drunkeness.

    Thursday, June 22, 2006 1:46:00 PM  
    Blogger centuri0n said...

    batgirl:

    I think saying Dr. Floyd "gets pressure from the 'big boys'" is taking a shot. I think headlining the link "Coach Floyd vs. Beer" is a shot. I think intimating that Dr. Floyd has a vested interest in not applying the "no beer" standard to WMT is taking a shot. And I think anonymity makes a lot of people brave.

    I'm not campaigning for ARB to purge your archives: I'm asking for all of us to find God-honoring ways of saying what exactly we mean. I'm not a big fan of one church in two locations, but they are (as far as I can tell) my brothers and sisters in Christ. Pointing out that their pastor has gotten himself into a sticky place between local politics and SBC politics doesn't exactly cover up a multitude of sins, if you see what I am saying.

    Thursday, June 22, 2006 2:13:00 PM  
    Blogger centuri0n said...

    And for the record, the gluttony argument has played itself out. The logical end of that argument is going to get the SBC demanding laws against overeating at the next convention, and for the sake of winning an argument we will have marginalized ourselves as only baptists seem able to do.

    Thursday, June 22, 2006 2:15:00 PM  
    Anonymous Batgirl said...

    Wow, I guess anonymous has made me change my mind as far as hate being spewed on these blogs. I assure you, my head is no where near the sand.
    I'm a far cry from a Ronnie fan, but on this ONE issue, I can see where he may not have realized there would be alcohol there. And I wouldn't care even if he DID know there would be alcohol there, seeing as I am not opposed to every sip of brew for all people.

    Thursday, June 22, 2006 2:18:00 PM  
    Anonymous Batgirl said...

    I think there is some overthinking going on.

    Thursday, June 22, 2006 2:31:00 PM  
    Blogger Arkansas Razorbaptist said...

    Batman here,

    Wow, this is a funny comment stream.

    I posted a news story from the Dem-Gaz, which last time I checked was a legit news source. How in the world is this poking at Coach Floyd?

    I didn't even state an opinion on the matter, but I will now.

    I don't have a problem with Coach Floyd's position, he lives up there and has a right to his opinion. I wouldn't want a bunch of drunks driving on Arkansas Highways following a baseball game. I don't see this as Coach pushing his theology on people, rather he is taking a moralistic position on something.

    Anon 3:22:22, If I recall correctly Benton County is a dry county. I could see, since that is the case, why Batgirl would have thought that Coach Floyd may not have known they were going to serve booze.

    Thursday, June 22, 2006 2:34:00 PM  
    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    Centurion, how can you say that gluttony has been played out? You never hear pastors talk against gluttony because if they did, it would offend some of their blimpy church members who are about as disciplined as Gomer Pyle!

    Thursday, June 22, 2006 2:53:00 PM  
    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    disciplined...sorta sounds like "discipled"

    Are you saying that church pastors should spend more time making mature disciples out of their members and less time on promoting themselves and their ambitions?

    Just what are you saying?

    Thursday, June 22, 2006 3:17:00 PM  
    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    anonymous- great question! I have a feeling that this is not about beer.

    Thursday, June 22, 2006 3:49:00 PM  
    Blogger Kevin Bussey said...

    I've got to take up for my cape crusaders! All they did is post an article. No shots were taken. My family is from Fordyce, is it that sensitive in AR now? Keep it up my caped friends!

    Thursday, June 22, 2006 5:02:00 PM  
    Blogger Kevin Bussey said...

    I almost thought it said Coach Floyd vs. The Bear! You know I would have loved that! :)

    Thursday, June 22, 2006 5:20:00 PM  
    Blogger centuri0n said...

    Caped Crusaders:

    If you are willing to say, "all we did was link a story which had Dr. Floyd's name in it with no motive but to link to a news story about an SBC pastor," I will apologize.

    Thursday, June 22, 2006 6:28:00 PM  
    Blogger centuri0n said...

    The "gluttony" card has been played out by people who don't really understand how to argue against absurdity.

    Think about this for one second: if someone is willing to propose or vote for an amendment which calls the "use of alcohol" inherently evil and the root of all kinds of evil, why would they find anything wrong with proposing a resolution at the next opportune moment against gluttony -- or sloth, or envy, or whatever?

    Pointing out that they ought to do more than they have already done in this matter if they really believe this stuff isn't a deterent -- because they really believe this stuff! They think they made their point and have gained some allies.

    It is played out because it is a worthless argumentative strategy. The real issue here is that the Bible does not say the "use of alcohol" is a moral hazard: its says the abuse of alcohol is a moral hazard. And until that SmartCard distinction can replace the punch-card binary logic of the prohibitionists, trying to make a more complicated moral point -- like "the SBC should be a lot more concerned with whether baptized people are being discipled than with whether the unbaptized know how to handle liquor" -- is impossible.

    Thursday, June 22, 2006 6:53:00 PM  
    Blogger Jamie Wootten said...

    Wow, tough day in Gotham city. The superheros are taking hits from all directions including other blogs. Hang in there guys, and gal. Yall do a great job. Just be mindful of the tone of your posts as we all should. May we all be above reproach in our comments.

    Thursday, June 22, 2006 8:23:00 PM  
    Blogger Arkansas Razorbaptist said...

    Centurion,

    Batman again...brother, we came home yesterday, saw the story online, and thought we should post it. The story was about Coach Floyd. I just linked the story and meant no harm. I don't have a problem with Coach Floyd's position.

    Thursday, June 22, 2006 8:56:00 PM  
    Blogger Arkansas Razorbaptist said...

    We like The Bear, he is an Arkansan.

    Thursday, June 22, 2006 9:53:00 PM  
    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    Arkansas Razorbaptist's- Just for the record. The new baseball stadium will be in Washington County. Which is a wet county. I saw your remarks with Art Rogers.

    Friday, June 23, 2006 2:33:00 AM  
    Blogger Arkansas Razorbaptist said...

    CORRECTION: Springdale is in Washington, not Bention County. Booze can be purchased there.

    Friday, June 23, 2006 8:12:00 AM  
    Blogger bearcat01 said...

    Springdale is actually in both Washington AND Benton county. Just drive north on 71 and watch the signs.

    Thursday, July 06, 2006 7:21:00 AM  

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