wood2 copy

unique visitors counter --Since April 21, 2006--

About Us
ARKANSAS RAZORBAPTISTS robin_batman_e_batgirl
ArkRazorbaptist [at] aol [dot] com

Help Darfur

Popular Sites

K-LOVE Radio

My Picks

  • Who it's all about
  • Joe Kennedy, Master of all things HTML and the brother who created this blog template. THANKS JOE.
  • IX Marks
  • Arkansas Baptist News
  • Arkansas Razorbacks
  • Arkansas Democrat-Gazette

  • Blogs

    Wade Burleson
    Rt. Rev. B.S. Cole
    Paul "Wade's Daddy" Burleson
    Tad Thompson
    Tad Thompson's Other Blog
    SBC Outpost
    Bryan Riley
    Adam Feldman
    Alan Cross
    Art Rogers
    Brent Thomas
    CB Scott
    Daniel Randle
    David Phillips
    David Price
    David Wright
    Dorcas Hawker
    Gary Lamb
    Jason Britt
    Jason Sampler
    Jason Shepherd
    Jeff Richard Young
    Joe Kennedy
    Joe Thorn
    John Stickley
    Kevin Bussey
    Micah Fries
    Missional Baptist Blog
    Nathan Skipper
    OK Preacher
    Paul Fries
    Paul Littleton
    Rick & Christie Garrett
    Rick Thompson
    Steve McCoy
    Tim Sweatman
    Timmy Brister
    Todd Littleton
    Tom Ascol
    Truthful Baptist
    Villa Rica
    Warren Kelly
    Wes Kenney

    The Persecuted Church

    Free Image Hosting at allyoucanupload.com
    Persecution Blog
    Compass Direct News
    Forum 18 News

    Our blog is worth more than you got!
    How much is your blog worth?


    Monday, July 24, 2006

    Allen on Page, Mohler and Women

    Bob Allen's latest piece examines Dr. Albert Mohler's change of heart on the issue of women in the ministry. (Last week on this blog, we suggested that he visit with Dr. Mohler) This piece was a response to his piece about SBC President Frank Page's 26-year old dissertation, "Toward a Biblical Ethic of Women in Ministry."

    We have communicated with Allen a few times via e-mail. He insists that there wasn't anything sinister about the tip that led to his story and said that he was glad he got it before someone else "bit on it." Anyone who has observed the media understands that there is a desire to get a potentially explosive story out on the street or in his case, the Web, but Allen insists he was unaware that a similar story aimed at doing harm to Page was being shopped around various Baptist media circles.

    In today's story, he does say that he attempted to e-mail Frank Page (phone calls ususally work better) for the initial story. Like Mohler, Page has said that he has changed his mind about issues related to women in the minstry. This was a better story, although we wouldn't characterize Page's change of heart as a "flip-flop."

    posted by Arkansas Razorbaptist at 7/24/2006 02:45:00 PM


    Blogger Wade Burleson said...

    Arkansas Razorbaptist and Batgirl,

    I must say your blog continues to get fancier graphics, more readers, and consistently stays on top of current events in the SBC.

    Kudos for a job well done.

    I would like a peak at the Bat Cave one of these days!


    wade burleson

    Monday, July 24, 2006 6:34:00 PM  
    Blogger Kevin Bussey said...

    That was a tacky jab he made about some are wondering if about Page's flip-flop. Like he never changed his views on anything!

    Monday, July 24, 2006 7:07:00 PM  
    Blogger Arkansas Razorbaptist said...


    You have an open invitation to come to the Batcave. Just e-mail and we'll give you the secret coordinates.

    Monday, July 24, 2006 7:07:00 PM  
    Blogger Batgirl said...

    Better yet, we'll rent one of those fancy grand opening spot-light things and have it in our front yard, awaiting your arrival.

    Monday, July 24, 2006 8:08:00 PM  
    Blogger Bart Barber said...

    Perhaps you can help me to avoid the future wrath of the Razorbaptist by defining "change of heart" and "flip-flop" in such a way as to help the rest of the world know what constitutes the difference between the two.

    Monday, July 24, 2006 9:20:00 PM  
    Blogger Arkansas Razorbaptist said...

    Well if your lead reads: "Frank Page isn't the only Southern Baptist Convention leader to change his mind about women in ministry" and then you detail how one man (Mohler) changed his mind while then providing Page's comments about his own change of heart, which were: "Long ago, I abandoned that position after the Holy Spirit instructed me otherwise in my study of Scripture," it is hard to define this change of position as a flip-flop. A flip-flop is something that is sudden and not particularly heart-felt, which is something we are used to seeing within the context of a political contest. Remember John Kerry in 2004: "I vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it." That was a flip-flop.

    Monday, July 24, 2006 9:33:00 PM  
    Blogger Arkansas Razorbaptist said...

    Cousin Bart,

    To claim in one sentence that Page changed his mind (a neutral characterization) only to claim in another sentence that he flip-flopped, (a negative characterization) doesn't seem to flow logically.

    Live long and prosper.

    Monday, July 24, 2006 9:58:00 PM  
    Blogger Bart Barber said...

    Ah...so both describe the same objective reality, but each provides subjective spin on that reality, just in opposite directions. It seems to me that "change of heart" is positive, not neutral. One who has a "change of heart" is necessarily heartfelt about convictions, open-minded to enlightenment and correction, and deserves sympathy for having endured a heart-rending struggle associated with a change of heart.

    Certainly "flip-flop" is negative—I agree. It implies that one is unstable and without conviction.

    This is why I wish that Dr. Page would give us something more substantive about his views. His rather terse statements up to this point reveal only a little of his heart and none of his mind in this process of change. At this point, apparently nobody in the blog community but Dr. Page has any idea what premises changed for him to arrive at a new conclusion. Having now stepped away from every major written work he has ever published, and having done so while saying no more about his intellectual journey than was absolutely necessary, I believe that he has opened himself up to the charge of doing flip-flops.

    I think he can close that door, but I think that he will have to do it himself. No quantity of surrogates in the blogs will be able to do it for him. He needs to give us a clear, thorough articulation of his position. We'll all benefit from that.

    Tuesday, July 25, 2006 5:28:00 AM  
    Blogger Arkansas Razorbaptist said...

    Cousin Bart,

    My description doesn't describe the same objective reality. A "change of heart" and a "flip-flop" are two different things.

    Think of in terms of pornography, specifically former Associate Justice of the United States Supreme Court Potter Stewart's characterization of pornography in JACOBELLIS v. OHIO, where he famously said, “I know it when I see it.”

    Such is the case with a flip-flop, we know one when we see one.

    Tuesday, July 25, 2006 9:27:00 AM  
    Blogger Bart Barber said...

    Dear Cousin,

    Thanks. "I know it when I see it" is, it seems to me, the definition of subjective. I don't concede, but I think I give up. :-)

    In Christ,

    Tuesday, July 25, 2006 11:10:00 AM  
    Anonymous Sonya said...

    One of the things that you will find as you get much older (I'm 44)
    is there will be many things that you will change your mind on as the years go by. I understand from your comments that you are a young man.
    I can assure you that you will not believe some of the same things when you are 40 as you did when you are 20. There is nothing wrong or sinister about this process. It's just God and life teaching us much.

    Tuesday, July 25, 2006 3:17:00 PM  
    Blogger Arkansas Razorbaptist said...

    Cousin Bart,

    You made my point, this is subjective, that is what we are dealing with here.

    Tuesday, July 25, 2006 5:09:00 PM  
    Blogger Bart Barber said...

    Dear Sonya,

    Thanks for the opportunity for enlightenment. Certainly we all learn every day, we hope. I don't know that the eight years separating me from you are the critical days that mark the difference between immature foolishness and aged sagacity, but nonetheless I do hope to be more learned and wiser when I'm 44.

    Thursday, July 27, 2006 1:17:00 PM  

    Post a Comment

    << Home


    On Tap for the Hogs

    Arkansas vs. Ole Miss
    Saturday, October 21, 2006
    Fayetteville 11:30 A.M. On TV. [Lincoln Financial Sports]

    Opposing Team Sites:

    Official Ole Miss Football
    Rivals Ole Miss
    Scout Ole Miss


    Clarion Ledger

    The Arkansas Razorbaptists

    The hearts of once quiet, passive pew sitters who have since become fired up for spreading the good news about the life transforming power of a relationship with Jesus Christ: Sola Gratia, Solo Christo, Sola Fide, Sola Dei Gloria, Sola Scriptura, Sola Cruce, Solo Evangelio.

    Blog Feed

    Add to My AOL
    Add The Arkansas Razorbaptist(s) to ODEO

    Subscribe in NewsGator Online
    Subscribe in Bloglines
    Add to Google

    Previous Posts

    Did you see James Merritt's comments about Ben Col...
    From today's New York Times This should spark some...
    Go to Kevin Bussey's blog and comment on this post...
    Bob Allen Responds -------------- Original message...
    Shopping a Story To Make Frank Page Look Bad The ...
    Q&A with Rev. Benjamin S. Cole By Batman We at th...
    Can't Get Enough Alcohol?The Dallas Morning New...
    ARB cited on EthicsDaily.com We laughed when we re...
    More on Southern Baptists & Public Education


    April 16, 2006
    April 23, 2006
    April 30, 2006
    May 07, 2006
    May 14, 2006
    May 21, 2006
    May 28, 2006
    June 04, 2006
    June 11, 2006
    June 18, 2006
    June 25, 2006
    July 02, 2006
    July 09, 2006
    July 16, 2006
    July 23, 2006
    July 30, 2006
    August 06, 2006
    August 13, 2006
    August 20, 2006
    August 27, 2006
    September 03, 2006
    September 10, 2006
    September 17, 2006
    September 24, 2006
    October 15, 2006

    email.ArkRazorbaptist [at] aol [dot] com | copyright 2006, all rights reserved

    [Valid RSS]